FIRSTS Conversation with the First Female Leader of ITU

JR: Welcome to First Conversations, the podcast and speaker series that puts a spotlight on the barrier breakers, glass ceiling smashers and innovators who have helped shape modern life. Each of our guests is a trailblazer who cleared a path for others, and you'll get to hear more about what it took to get them there. I'm Jessica Rosenworcel, the Chairwoman of the Federal Communications Commission, and today, I am lucky to be joined by a woman who just made history Doreen Bogdan-Marton

This past September, Doreen became the first woman elected to lead the International Telecommunications Union, or ITU, since it was established more than a century and a half ago. And she received 139 votes from the 172 countries participating. Now, this was actually Doreen's second history making election at the ITU, because when she was voted to lead the Development Bureau back in 2018. This was the first time a woman had been elected to any of the ITU’s top leadership positions.

So, you can think of her as the Sally Ride of International Telecommunications Policy. Now, before these leadership posts, she spent more than two decades at the ITU, working her way up to become its most senior civil servant. Now, while a certain segment of my friends in FCC land may find a lot of this impressive, what some will find even more impressive is that she's also an amateur radio operator.

So, her tech nerd cred, it's really beyond reproach. Alright. Thank you, Doreen Bogdan Martin for joining me today. It's great to have you.

DB: Thank you. Thank you so much, Chairwoman. And it's great to be here. Thank you.

JR: So, your election is a big deal. That's because the ITU is a big deal. And before we get to your personal story, how about you give a brief overview of the ITU, and tell me why it matters?

DB: Well, I think ITU is a big deal, right? And I think few people know this because we are we are the oldest international organization in the world. We just celebrated our 150th anniversary. We were created back in 1865. At the advent of the Telegraph. But 158 years later, I think it's fair to say that we have helped shape technologies like radio, like television, like satellite internet, mobile communications and many others. I think ITU plays a critical role when it comes to things like, radio frequency spectrum, satellite orbits, developing technical standards that underpin the digital world and of course, promoting universal digital development. And when I say we as ITU, of course, it's not just the secretariat, but it's our 193 member states. And we also have more than a thousand companies, universities and other international and regional organizations. And I think that that makes ITU quite unique in the UN system. And as an international organization. We've been part of the engine. I would say that powers the internet. And I think we're a critical platform as we look to the future for transformative technologies, including those in space, which I know is something close to your heart as well.

JR: Absolutely. So now that we understand where you are and a little more about the ITU, how about you tell us how you got there, what in your past brought you to the position you're in right now?

DB: Well, I grew up in New Jersey, in what I would call a science loving family. I was totally into the Apollo, space program back then, and I think that helped spark my technology bug. When I was in high school, I took lots of science and math classes. And when I started, my university studies, I was also, a chemistry major. I think both of my parents were a huge influence on me. My mom was an educator, and, and my dad, a pediatrician. I used to work in his office on weekends when I was a student. And I think, you know, with the life lessons of my parents, and their teachings, I always felt like I wanted to, to give back to the community. And so, kind of play an important role when it comes to public and community service.

JR: So, you have spent your life in public service and working on international communications. So, with that background, tell me, what came first, your interest in international affairs or your interest in tech and telecom policy?

DB: I was always very curious. I think about both about international and also curious about technology. The international aspect probably came first, when I graduated from university, I decided to take a year off, teaching English in Spain and traveling around Europe. And of course, back then we didn't have mobile phones. I sent a postcard every week to my parents and waited in long lines on Sundays at Telefonica to be able to place, a fixed line, expensive call back to my parents. And so, when I finished that year, abroad. I came back, and my father said, okay, now it's time to get serious. And I decided to enter a program at American University. It was the School of International Service. And I chose as a focus international communications policy, and it was that experience and also having amazing professors that actually connected me to the Commerce Department. I was an intern. That's where it all started, at the Commerce Department. And I was very fortunate because I was lucky to kind of match some of my studies. I did some technology courses, satellite communications, and I was able to match that with the work that I was doing as an intern and then ultimately became a staff member at the Commerce Department.

JR: So, I love that image you shared of you waiting in line to make a call in Spain, because during your professional life, you've seen the dawn of the commercial internet and the start of the mobile revolution just sweeping changes in technology. So, what was that like? Did you ever have any light bulb moments when you watched these technologies come to markets globally? And what does it feel like to have that front row seat in international history when it comes to these technologies?

DB: Well, I think there's a lot of light bulb moments. And I think you characterized it well;  I was fortunate to be where I was at an incredible time for our industry. I remember very well, you know, there were those that had CDMA and those that had, GSM and or mobile phones, if you had one or the other, didn't work in different countries. And it's certainly hard to fathom now  that it was, like that when the mobile industry first started evolving. But it was also quite incredible back then. When things started to happen in the satellite, sphere. And of course, you're, sort of in a front seat, at this point in history, with so many exciting satellite systems that have reemerged, in some that have come out, for the first time. But back then, when I was at the Commerce Department, one of my exciting assignments was to represent the US, at Intelsat, at the Board of Governors and at Inmarsat, at the Board of governors. And, of course, those two institutions were essentially like state run institutions. And the US, at the time had decided to start to think about liberalizing, the satellite space for private industry.
And I won't get into the details, but it was called the Separate Satellite Systems Policy, where you would let, private systems come in, as long as they did not, present economic harm to the to sort of incumbents, which was Intelsat and Inmarsat and we had Pan-Am site and we had Columbia, Iridium, Mk8 until Odessa and, you know, so there was so much excitement around connectivity and the potential, and now that excitement, I think has reemerged with, with the new systems that, many cases are up and operating. And of course, as you said,  I think about my days in the Commerce Department where we were all using WordPerfect and, you know, we didn't really even use email. And how things have completely changed. And again, you know, sort of the different light bulb moments. . Most countries had PTT and so it was Post and Telecom together, and it was government owned, and there was basically a single entity, that delivered your post and provided your, your telephone service, all of which at that time was actually fixed line. So, privatization started. Countries started to understand that competition was a good thing. We started to have multiple operators and regulators to be created. And I think that's where the FCC, was so helpful in terms of, sharing, the vast history and experience that most countries were just beginning to look at. And so, you know, coming to a specific, moment, light bulb moment. I think probably the most memorable was back in 1998 when the ITU held its second World Telecommunications Development Conference. And at the time I had I had left commerce, I had come to the ITU, and I was essentially leading our regulatory reform program, which was very new because regulations and reform was something that countries were just beginning. And so, I started to analyze what each country was doing. I did that through a survey. It was actually a paper survey that we mailed by post, the countries, they mailed back their reply, many cases. It was handwritten. If we were lucky, it was actually typed. So,  it was easier to read. And we started to analyze the wealth of information that was coming in from countries. And in 1998, at this specific conference, I was able to present to the ITU, world at large, what was happening in terms of policy and regulatory trends. And that presentation actually led to the creation of the Global Symposium for Regulators, which took place for the first time back in, in the year 2000, and will soon take place again, in the next few weeks in Sharm El Sheikh.

JR: Yeah. Oh, my goodness, you have seen so much technology change during your career and time at the ITU. But now I think we want the dirt. So, you've gone to tell us what's your most memorable story from your time at the ITU before you got the top job?

DB: I would say my previous function probably would be the most memorable. And as you mentioned in the beginning. So ,I was first elected as   director of the Telecommunications Development Bureau, and that's where I had spent many years. But I was the first woman elected. And also coming from a developed country. And it was really exciting. And, you know, my heart has been and always will be in, in development. And when I took that position, I knew  that we had to change, that we had to transform, that we had to work faster and better if we were going to help developing countries close their digital gaps. So, I quickly, got kind of a change process in motion. I launched a change Champions initiative, got internal by and lots of excitement. And just over a year into my tenure, of course, COVID hit, and we had to very quickly reorganize and redeploy, the way that we would serve  our members. I felt like I managed to score a sort of triple win in terms of keeping business going. Keeping staff morale up, which was not easy. And also staying engaged, staying close with our membership and our private sector partners. It was difficult. But I think we managed and, once we got through the pandemic, we were able to continue, I think, in a great way with initiatives like partner to connect in our school connectivity programs and much more.

JR: So, I want to ask a question about leadership. You had three decades at the ITU. Was there some point at which you said, I'm the right person for the top job? Does that point come along? And if so, what does it feel like?

DB: Well, yes. Three decades indeed. And you know, of course, I started out as, a young, policy analyst and, you know, worked  my way up and, did lots of research and had, the opportunity to be in different kinds of meetings, have different roles, different levels of responsibility. And I think that really helped shape who I am and the way that I lead, in, my past years at the ITU, I think I've been very fortunate to have, led three plenipotentiary conferences. And when I say lead, lead the whole governance and organization, three plenipotentiary, I did 11 council, sessions. I had two World Telecom policy forums, 11 Global Symposium for regulators, in no less than 24 broadband commission sessions. And really through leading those processes, I mean, each time you learn more and I think each time the results can be better just due to organization, due to, I think, good listening and of course, working closely with, with membership as well as with staff.

JR: Yeah. I appreciate you've been counting all those events you've been going to and leading, big numbers there. So now I want to mention something we chatted about at the start, which is you were the first woman to lead the ITU. And that's really important globally because we have gender barriers when it comes to technology. If you can just talk a little bit about what those barriers look like and why breaking them down is so important.

DB: I think our whole sector is plagued with these low numbers. And I think if I look back at my career, change is definitely not happening fast enough. I mean, in some cases, I almost feel like the representation of women in my days at Commerce was actually better than it is today. So, I think progress has been too slow. And this is an industry that needs more women at the table. So, I think there's different kinds of divides. There's the digital gender access divide where women and girls have less access to technology. There's the sort of women in STEM, we're not getting enough girls and women to study, STEM fields. And then ultimately, our workforce, we're highly underrepresented. And if you have fewer women in the workforce, it's difficult to get those women to middle management and ultimately to, senior management. If we look at leadership when it comes to government agencies, in our sphere, 16% of ICT regulators are women. When it comes to ministers it's slightly better. It's 18%, but it it's not enough. And I think it's so important when we look at policymaking, when we look at it, staff matters. Of course, when we look at new and emerging technologies, artificial intelligence, machine learning, the innate bias that we're creating because we don't have enough women at the table, I think it's very concerning. And there are huge opportunities in our sector for women. And I think we need to do more as leaders to help ensure that women come up through the ranks and that we don't continue to see this leaky pipeline that our industry, has been I think, suffering with for many years.

JR: Oh, I agree with  everything you said from front to back. I also share your impatience about fixing it. But you've been on the job. The first woman on this job. Tell me, what's something about being Secretary-General that has surprised you?

DB: So, I've had a lot of surprises, internal and external. But I would say a lot of, pleasant surprises. You know, I think the best thing about being in this position today is that the issues that we represent, the issues that we care about, are on the top of   domestic and global agendas everywhere. Starting this year in Davos and going to the UN, LDC conference and the Commission on the Status of Women that had digital at the top of, its agenda, the discussions in the G7, the G20, digital issues and emerging and new technologies, it's everywhere. And I think  that it's key for the ITU because we're the only institution that gathers 193 ICT ministries . And the fact that we have the ministries, we have the regulators, we have the private sector, it's for us to really help close the gap. We have two strategic goals that our membership adopted at our last plenipotentiary conference. One is universal connectivity. And with 2.7 billion people that have never, ever connected to the internet, that's a big job to bring those 2.7 billion online. And then the second one is sustainable digital transformation and so, the whole notion of green standards, green digital smart cities, this is where ITU needs to be leading. And contributing. So, you know, I think it's a good surprise at how the importance of our mission is globally recognized.

JR: Absolutely. So, what can the FCC and other U.S. policymakers be doing to help promote that vision of digital opportunity? Because it's one we share. And what should we be doing about it here on our shores, and what should we be doing about it abroad?

DB: Thank you. Let me start by saying, it's great to have the FCC and I think the US government, as a whole, behind initiatives like Partner to Connect, Partner to Connect is this platform that we launched to connect the hardest to connect, that sort of last mile, the furthest behind. And it's been great to have strong commitments, strong pledges on the digital gender gap, on, boosting infrastructure, cybersecurity, digital skills. So, we need that commitment from your side. We need that support, to bring those needed initiatives and, support to developing countries. So, thank you for that. But I also think  as FCC is being one of the oldest.

JR: I don't feel that old. I don't know what you're talking about.

DB: Well, I don't feel that old either. But we're only I58 years old and looking good.

JR: And looking good.

DB: I think the wealth of experience that you have and, maybe some experience is good and bad and, and lessons that you've learned that you can share with others. I think that training piece of training of the regulator or supporting other regulators, that whole capacity development piece,  I think would be a huge help to developing countries. And I know you work closely with USTTI and other partners, but I think that whole capacity development piece is where we need to double down and focus. We know that it's not just closing the digital gap. It's actually about meaningful connectivity. And that whole capacity development piece is so important. I also think with your new, Space Bureau, that's something that, we look to you to help also share with other regulators and other countries, we too see the value and the importance of all the exciting things happening  in space. Of course, space sustainability is a big issue. space traffic management. But we look to the excitement and opportunities in space to really help us to close that gap. I think a key institution in this day and age and having strong commitments by the FCC and other, us, partners will help us ensure that we can actually deliver on our mandate.

JR: Well, we look forward to working on all of that with you. We share so much in common when it comes to talking about connecting all. And you mentioned a number just a second ago, and the number just chills 2.7 billion people on this planet who are not connected. So, I'm wondering what you think from where you sit, it will take to reach everyone, everywhere.

DB: I mean, 2.7, as you said, it's a big number. And that's never, ever been online. But of course, there's many hundreds of millions that are under connected, as we would say. So, individuals that may connect from time to time or individuals that suffer from not good connectivity, the speed is too slow, or the content is not relevant or it’s not it's not affordable. So, there are many other barriers, I think on top of the 2.7 billion that are not connected, which is a horrific figure. And, in terms of what it's going to take, we definitely need to have that enabling environment in place, having the right regulatory framework, having the right policies that will encourage the needed investment in. We've done some cost estimates, that have since been, recently reconfirmed by the IMF. And we're looking at something in the range of over 400 billion USD. And that's just for the connectivity piece. We looked also specifically at Africa, working closely with the world Bank. We did this moonshot for Africa exercise, where we looked at a figure around 100 billion, to actually make those connections. But as I said, on top of it, there's many other pieces that also have, a cost. We've been very focused on things like school connectivity. And, you know, I'm a big fan of your kind of slogan about the homework gap and making sure that young people that there is no homework gap, that they have access. Well, we saw very clearly during the pandemic, when students didn't have access to connectivity in their schools or at home, they lost access to education for a very long period. And in many cases, girls that were impacted, are never going to go back to school, which is really so tragic. And so, we've teamed up with UNICEF, with other partners, including some U.S. partners, to try to really connect every school in the world to the internet and make sure that connectivity can be provided, to every young person to open up opportunities and choices for young people around the globe. And of course, in that connectivity piece that also includes bringing the necessary skills, to ensure that they can actually leverage that connectivity. I know that's something that you've been tackling in the US domestically, trying to bring broadband to all, trying to bring that down prices as well. And that's something that we're very excited to see happening in the US as well.

JR: We've got work to do. So now I'm going to take a turn and I'm going to ask you about something I mentioned right at the start. You've got to tell us how you got into amateur radio.

DB: Well, my father was a ham radio operator and he was kind of geeky. In addition to being a pediatrician and all of his cousins were ham radio operators. And so, we had the whole set up in the house. And so, I was very curious. I was very interested, and I would play around, but it was actually when ITU was offered an opportunity to, connect, a group of students to the International Space Station. And the students came from a local school. They had to go through this application process and why they wanted to talk to the astronauts. And what would they ask the astronauts? And so, I hosted this gathering, students, that were coming to the ITU to make this connection in the ITU Radio Shack, as they call it. And then, in addressing the students and in part, provoked by my own children, I made a commitment in front of this audience that I, too, would become an amateur radio operator. So, we spent about a year chatting with, some of my radio friends, and I took the, the test during the WRC in 2015. And I can tell you, I was totally nervous because so many U.S. delegates knew I was taking the test. And I thought, what would I tell them if I failed? And to make matters worse, my kids knew. And if I had to go back and tell my kids that I failed, that would not be a good thing. Anyway, so very happy to be an amateur radio operator. And my callsign is  K 2 Rubio Tango X-Ray.

JR: Oh, terrific. Oh my gosh, Kiki and committed. We like it. Alright. Since this is part of our first conversation series, I'm going to close with some quick questions. We ask all of our guests. So, we're going from the ground connecting the globe to the mundane. What's the first thing you do in the morning?

DB: Coffee. Definitely coffee. No one talks to me until I have my coffee. So, it's coffee. And then usually at work out.

JR: I'm with you on the coffee, but, as with respect to the workout, it's going to take a little more for me to get there. What was your first concert?

DB: So, my first concert of my choice. Because I used to go with my parents to their concerts, but my choice concert, was Bruce Springsteen.

JR: Oh, my goodness, that was mine as well. But you're from new Jersey, so I feel like it counts double. So, what's one bit of advice you would give to someone on the first day of their first job?

DB: I would say be prepared. You always need to be prepared. Listen. But also inquire; find the balance between just taking it in but also asking questions. And I think overall, shoot for the stars and be yourself. It's important to be authentic. And also, I guess don't give up. So often in our lives, in our careers, people try to bring us down, but don't give up.

JR: Oh, good advice. So finally, this podcast celebrates those who pave the way for others. So, I'm going to close by asking, can you tell us about a mentor or someone who really influenced your work?

DB: There are many, many colleagues, mentors, role models, and I would say both men and women. But maybe just to be more specific, I think my first boss, NTIA, when I was an intern, it was the Assistant Secretary of Commerce at the time, Janice Obuchowski. She was a huge inspiration. She was she was vocal. She was assertive. She was a good listener. And I think the most important thing was that she gave incredible feedback. So, she would give you an assignment, you would go off and do the assignment, and then she would come back, and she would give you written and verbal feedback. And that that helped me tremendously. And then also just to stay on some women that have been so inspiring. I think for many women around the world that do it, you, conferences and follow it meetings, we were all lucky to have three incredible women at the State Department that covered the three sectors of the ITU. We had Doreen McGirr, we had Cecily Holiday, we had Mary Ann, and they had the D and the and the R and the T sector. And they were just amazing, these three trailblazers that took the microphone that negotiated and so many of us looked up to them and maybe just one last one, if I may, another important person in my life was, my professional career was a delegate from Syria. We used to be an ITU staff member, and I was fortunate because he really helped guide me. He saw that I was new, I was inexperienced, and he sort of pulled me aside and taught me many important tricks, many important negotiation techniques that have helped me tremendously throughout my career.

JR: Well, thank you for calling all of those individuals out. We all stand on the shoulders of others. And it's good to hear about help along the way, but now I'm going to give you an opportunity for your own call out, where can folks follow you to keep up to date with what you're doing?

DB: You can follow me on LinkedIn. So, it's Doreen Bogdan on LinkedIn. We also have the ITU SG Twitter account, which is @ITUSecGen, and of course we have the ITU Instagram page, which is at @ITUofficial.

JR: Well, thank you. That wraps up this rendition of First Conversations. Thank you for being here Doreen, for the work you do. And thanks to everyone for listening. Take care.